Essays on the Gita - Track 506

“The symbolic companionship of Arjuna and Krishna, the human and the divine soul, is expressed elsewhere in Indian thought, in the heavenward journey of Indra and Kutsa seated in one chariot, in the figure of the two birds upon one tree in the Upanishad, in the twin figures of Nara and Narayana, the seers who do tapasya together for the knowledge. But in all three it is the idea of the divine knowledge in which, as the Gita says, all action culminates that is in view; here it is instead the action which leads to that knowledge and in which the divine Knower figures Himself. Arjuna and Krishna, this human and this divine, stand together not as seers in the peaceful hermitage of meditation, but as fighter and holder of the reins in the clamorous field, in the midst of the hurtling shafts, in the chariot of battle. The Teacher of the Gita is therefore not only the God in man who unveils Himself in the world of knowledge, but the God in man who moves our whole world of action, by and for whom all our humanity exists and struggles and labours, towards whom all human life travels and progresses. He is the secret Master of works and sacrifice and the Friend of the human peoples."

I think we shall stop here today and continue the next one to come Arjuna. You wanted to ask some question?

Question: Isn’t the opposition in ignorance only when people are opposing Krishna?

Answer: They are also in ignorance but in ignorance there are various degrees.

Question: So, what is forgiven and what is not forgiven?

Answer: Everything is forgiven but when a person is not only in the state of ignorance, or in the state of error, but also in the state of falsehood, the distinction between error and falsehood is that error is only a stage of development towards knowledge, but falsehood is to insist upon error all the time and refusing to move towards knowledge.

Question: Is that the result of the egoistic consciousness?

Answer: Both are egoistic. But the other one is a lesser egoistic because it is a process towards Knowledge. All of us, for example, are in that state. We are making errors but we want to sincerely want to, cross over. But falsehood comes when you know it is an error, you insist that it is not an error, and present it as a truth.

Question: How do you know that it is an error? Because whenever I observe I find that if an error is perpetuated, I don't think that they are aware that it is an error.

Answer: But for example Duryodhana himself says dharmam janami na cha me pravrittih, he knows it very well! So there are human beings who are really aware. How for example people deliberately speak lies? They know that what they say is a lie, but they affirm consciously and even when contradicted, they reject it. They say, "No, this is the truth."

Question: When Duryodhana says that he had no nivritti from error, does that mean that he is perpetuating the falsehood?

Answer: That's right. Correct. He is in that grip of falsehood. He cannot avoid it. So those who are in falsehood, they are hostile, they can’t even hear the name of God actually, because it really disturbs their balance, their scheme of things is immediately broken. Because if God really manifests, his whole thing will be shattered.

Question: Are there so many people who use God as a crutch? Does that mean that they are not in the falsehood?

Answer: No it depends whether what you call "crutch" is a mask, or if really you are in need of a crutch, and you obtain God as your crutch. It depends.

Question: What is a mask?

Answer: Many people use Him only as a mask. How many pundits, and how many so­ called holy men are actually using God as a crutch, only to advance themselves.

Question: Is the inner voice a very good guide to doing what is right?

Answer: There is always a voice but the veil is so thick that it does not reach you.

Question: But the more you listen to your inner voice, the stronger it gets!

Answer: Yes, of course! Certainly! It is a part of Sadhana to hear the voice and to follow it.

Question: About what is mentioned here about Indra and Kutsa and the other things, does the choice of the shreyas and the preyas in the Katha Upanishad come to this relevance because I think in the ordinary consciousness that has no relevance to people.

Answer: You are right. It is once you have chosen shreyas that you can have in the travel-car God with you.

Comment: That is applicable only to the elevated people...

Answer: Those who have really reached that point where they are actually worthy of travelling in the car with Sri Krishna, with the inner Divine.