Four Questions for Everyone—Introduction to Books (2008) - Audio

Dailogue with Teachers from Gandhi Vidhya Mandir, Sardarshehar

Children who are different, that is to say, I am not concerned with children who are good or better but children who are different. Children who do not want to be slaves of anybody except the Divine, therefore, the aim of education which they are pursuing or they would like to pursue or without knowing even because children do not know what they are but who are capable in due course to know that the most important thing to know in the world is the Divine and what is the Divine Will.

Similarly, everyone has to try to find out what is the Divine Will. So when I say children who are different are those children who, whether they know it or not, are here on this earth to discover what is the divine will, and I would like to serve these children and the teachers who want to serve these children.

When you speak in your ideal—Ahimsa, Satya, Asteya, Bramacharya, Aparigraha—all these aims, which you have laid down in your institution, are all preparatory for this work. If, by divine we mean the truth which is the real definition of truth-consciousness, even in the Veda it was called rita-chit.

To be a slave of McCaulay-ian system of education is what has brought about the ruin of India. How to combat the system?

When we speak of universalization of elementary education, the idea is that what is going on, now spread it, give the same thing.

There are many things which we need to discuss, many many things. Maybe in future we may have more opportunities of meeting together, but today I shall limit myself only to one issue: what is it that every child, every human being as a human being aught to learn as a human being? What should every human being as a human being should learn in life? You may become a doctor, engineer, lawyer, a coolie, a teacher whatever you might like to do, but, first of all our first question is: I am a human being and as a human being what should I learn.

I can share with you what I have ultimately arrived at the present, even though we have to continue on and on and on in answer to this question. I have come to the conclusion that every human being should learn four things. Since everybody lives life, he must discuss the question: what is the aim of life? Everybody, whether he becomes a doctor or lawyer whatever it may be his profession, but this is the first question and last question that you should ask: what is the aim of life?

At present because McCaulay struck off this idea from India, you are not allowed to ask this question at all. In no curriculum of India this question is centrally posed. Therefore, hardly anybody thinks about it. Children pick up some idea about what is life from some cinema dialogue and they take it as a guide for the whole life: jivan ek safar hai, jivan ek paheli hai. So many dialogues are there in the cinemas and we take it as if it is patheya.

So this is the first question that you should ask, and you should be able to answer this question or we should all be engaged in research.

Learning and teaching is an inherent profession of man, even as a parent you have to be a teacher, to learn and to teach is a constant phenomenon of human life. Therefore, it is only not only BA people who should learn what is teaching and learning, it is is artificial. It is the one subject which everyone in the country and the world should learn. What is learning? What is to be a good learner? What is it to be a good teacher? So this is the second question.

The third question is that every human being has got a body whether he likes it or not.

Just now I’m discussing a question as to what human being as a human being has to learn. So I said everybody should learn the aim of life because everybody lives. Second, is that everybody is a teacher and a pupil, so everybody should know what is it to be a good student and a good teacher. The third is that everybody has a human body. Therefore, he must know what is the human body, as a human being he should learn. And the fourth question that he has to ask is that everybody is required to, wherever he is, move upwards, wherever an individual finds himself or herself. His fundamental thrust is to move upwards, urdhva gama.

Therefore, this is the question. How do I move upward? What is it that will lift me? So I identified three important qualities which uplifts, which are the powers of upliftment, one at the power of illumination, the second is the power of heroism, and the third is the power of harmony. These are the three: illumination, heroism and harmony.

So, as I have told you, I am only sharing with you what I have been learning myself and making research in these fundamental problems, and I would like to share with you what I have so far arrived at. It is because of my concern with these problems that I have advocated what I call VValue-Oriented Education.

In fact, this term value oriented was coined by Dr Dave and myself when we were in the ministry of education together. At that time there were many discussions as to whether we should use this term value-oriented and, I said don't say value education but say value-oriented, because the moment you speak of value education there'll be debates.

What are the values required? My answer is, whatever you think are values, be oriented towards them, so no discussion as to what are the values, because endless debate is there in the world. My answer is: whatever you think is value and you can't escape values. Everybody has this trust towards values. You may differ as to what that value is, but there can be no debate that everyone should be turned towards values, so we decided upon this term value-oriented education.

Because of all this I have so far edited four books. I want to introduce these four books to you. The first book is called the Aim of Life. I have edited this book and in due course, I will show you this book. Also the second book is called the Good Teacher and the Good Pupil. The third book is Mystery and Excellence of the Human Body and the fourth book I am still writing, because I have planned to write 85 small booklets on the theme of illumination, heroism and harmony. 10 have been written, 75 remain to be developed as yet. So I would like to introduce, as far as I can, these four books during these two hours.

The method of these books is that of exploration. I do not want to tell people what should be the aim of life, that is to be left to the students themselves, but they should have data. The problem is that we preach something without giving the children the data, they explore by themselves alternatives. They should think about various alternatives, and we have no literature today in the country which can give you a rich literature.

What are the different aims of life? People have thought of life in many different ways. Our children should know different aims of life which have been pursued in the history of the world, right. Having made a study, they should decide: this is the aim of life. So it is in that context that I would like to show you the themes and some of the contents of this book.

In the course of the history of human endeavour, there have emerged four main theories of the aim of life in accordance with four different conceptions of the truth of existence. These may be called supracosmic, the cosmic and terrestrial, the supraterrestrial or otherworldly, and the integral or synthetic or composite. This is the conclusion I have arrived at after reading the history of the world. All the aims of life can be summed up in these four aims.


Now students may have to find out which of these four is a given aim of life which I'll be presenting one after the other.

Or teachers have also to identify whether supra cosmic aim or supra terrestrial or cosmic or synthetic. Next. Human tendencies are complex and often move in various directions, simultaneous.

This explains why different aims of life are frequently pursued in some kind of ordered or disordered combination. Genuine integration or synthesis is rather rare.


The supra cosmic view. What is the meaning of supra cosmic view?

Next. So, cosmic terrestrial belief, Supra terrestrial belief, the Integral belief. Next.

This is exploration has started.

This is Ishopanishad. Now all of you must be quite conversant with it, so I don't take time. Next.

This is another search by Buddha, what I call search for the utter transcendence.

What is Ishavasya Upanishad’s aim of life, I call it actually, if you examine it is integral aim of life. The whole Ishavasya Upanishad is a doctrine of synthesis. Everything is synthesized knowledge and ignorance, mrityu and amrityu, sambhava asambhava. This is complete synthesis tad ejati tad na ejati, It moves, It does not move.

This one, Buddha, he speaks of search for the utter transcendence, nirvana.


I'm not taking your time because all this is I'm just showing you the book as if I'm opening the pages for you just to see because otherwise it will take 10 hours to expound the book.


This is Apology, heroic life. A life which is full of illumination and yet a heroic life.

Gandhi has translated his Apology into Gujarati, so he has called him Ek Satyavir ni Katha. He has called him Satyavir. What is his aim of life? I would like teachers and students to learn, what is the aim of life that he put forward?

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This is one of the scenes from Socratic life that while he's being hemlock.
He's still discussing philosophy with all his students. He's just about to take hemlock. But his love for wisdom is so great that even at that moment he's discussing what is life and death, philosophically at this time.


Are you not ashamed that you give your attention to acquiring as much money as possible and similarly with reputation and honor and give no attention or thought to truth and understanding and the perfection of your soul? This was the question that he has put.

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Now just opposite to it is the aim of life that was pursued by Alexander. Adventure and ambition he put forth before the mankind, ‒ you should be adventurous, you should be ambitious, right or wrong, but the students should know this also is an aim of life which has been pursued by some people and many people. Even today many people believe that this is the aim of life, ‒ be ambitious. So let them understand the life of Alexander. Learn from him what he achieved as a result of ambition.

Next. Now you come to another aspect of life ‒ Jesus Christ, the Sermon on the Mount. There is no ambition, be meek, be humble, be like a child. Love thy neighbor as thyself. It's a message of love, compassion, sacrifice.


This is from Nitishatakam of Bhartrihari. It is neither God, nor man, nor life ‒ Niti, the hundred verses that he wrote on Nitishatakam. I would like students to study that. So this book gives some examples of Nitishatakam so that students learn.

Now, Prophet Muhammad, he spoke of the submission to the Will of the Supreme. It’s a tremendous message that he has given. It is exactly the same which the Gita says, submission to the Will of the Supreme.


Now here Shankaracharya comes and says life is a dream. So question of relentless ambition, adventure doesn't arise. The life is a dream, the Brahman is real, the world is a lie. Brahma satyam jagat mithya.

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Now here is another aim of life which Leonardo has given. Perfection is the aim of life. And in every field of life he has said strive for perfection.

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This is a famous letter that he wrote to his king when he was a young man and he was looking for a job. He wrote this letter. It's a very famous letter which I would like students to learn at that time what he knew. And he says he was not only a painter, he was a sculptor, he was an architect, he was a great engineer, he was an atomist. His perfection was all rounded perfection.

And our students should know what kind of perfection he must have striven for to be able to achieve this at a young age.

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These are some of his sketches, even of bridges and so on.

He's not only famous for his; he did so much without knowledge of medicine, of the present day. He had drawn the picture of child in the womb. This was another great painting, Virgin on the Rocks, Mary who gave birth to Christ. One of the greatest expressions on the face he has been able to bring out.


Here is the message of Sri Chaitanya Ecstasy of Divine Love. It's love of Christ, but also more than that, it's a different quality of love. And people should know what are different messages of love in the world. This is another example, what kind of love for the divine.


Here is a thinker he devoted his life in search of existence of God, but critically to examine the question of God, whether God exists or not, can you prove intellectually? And he's very famous for his proof for the existence of God and the human soul. His famous book is Meditations in French. And it's a very famous book because ontological argument for the existence of God. A famous argument. I would like students to learn that argument. You may agree with it, you may not agree with it. But as somebody who has explored this question and many people even today believe that he has finally given the argument, his argument is irrefutable. I am one of those who believe that he has given irrefutable argument for the existence of God. So many people who today say unless you prove to me intellectually I don't believe in God, I would ask him to read this particular proof. It's a very difficult proof, but he has given the proof. And children, students should know that there is in the world somebody who has given the proof, intellectual proof of the existence of God.


Now, here he was not satisfied with intellectual proof. His search was deeper. Have you seen God? Have you experienced God? That was his search. So this was his quest and I would like students to learn his quest.


This is Einstein. He has also a view of the world. He doesn't deal with God, no spirit but acutest perception of the world. And that acutest perception has led him to visualize the fourth dimension. And this is very important. Space and time, he said, are both joined together. Space and time is not a correct idea. Space-time is a correct idea and the time is the fourth dimension of space itself. He has proved it. And therefore it is very important that students should learn. That is to say, our students should be led to very high level of thinking before they decide what is the aim of life?

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Now, not many people know that Nehru wrote a very important chapter in one of his books called Life's Philosophy. And modern man is likely to gel with his view where he says there is too much to do in life; life is too short to do all that is to be done. So he says there may be God, there may not be God. I'm not very much concerned. Here is so much to do in the world, so let me do here. That was his view. I don't agree with it. But anyway, that is his view. And children should know that there is a powerful leader of India who wanted to do for the world.

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Read this. Essentially, I am interested in this world.

This is the cosmic terrestrial aim of life. Essentially, I am interested in this world, in this life, not in some other world or a future life. Whether there is such a thing as soul or whether there is a survival after death or not. I do not know. And important as these questions are, they do not trouble me in the least. The environment in which I have grown up takes a soul or rather the atman and a future life.
The Karma theory of cause and effect and reincarnation for granted.

Next. I have been affected by this and so in a sense I am favorably disposed towards these assumptions. There might be a soul which survives the physical death of the body and a theory of cause and effect governing life's actions seems reasonable, though it leads to obvious difficulties when one thinks of the ultimate cause. Presuming a soul there appears to be some logic also in theory of reincarnation.

But I don't believe in any one of these or other theories and assumptions as a matter of religious faith. They are just intellectual speculations in an unknown region about which we know next to nothing. They do not affect my life and whether they were proved right or wrong subsequently they would make little difference to me.

Life is too complicated and as far as we can understand it in our present state of knowledge, too illogical for it to be confined within the four corners of a fixed doctrine. The real problems for me remain problems of individual and social life, of harmonious living, of a proper balancing of an individual's inner and outer life, of an adjustment of the relations between individuals and between groups, of a continuous becoming something better and higher of social development, of the ceaseless adventure of man. In the solution of these problems, the way of observation and precise knowledge and deliberate reasoning according to the method of science must be followed.

Well, this sums up the theory of Jawaharlal Nehru, which most of the modern men today adopt. It's very important that people should know what exactly there should no vagueness in the ideas of the children. From class one to class 1 to class12, twelve years the children are given to us. Within twelve years these things are not very big things, no burden at all. They can very well be given to our children if teachers know about it. That's why these books are written only for teachers.
Teachers should know first of all. Then they can transmit this to the children.

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Now I come to another equally cosmic terrestrial aim of life but much more drastic. This is Bertrand Russell. Life is a bubble that will burst sooner or later and nothing will remain of it. So what is to be done of life, even the question of social development and all that? He said you do if you like, if it pleases you. If it doesn't please you, don't do that even. But he says I like it, therefore I'm doing it. That was his idea, not that everybody should do it. He has no message. This is the message ‒ life is a bubble that will burst sooner or later and remain. Nothing will remain of it. Children should also know this view before they arrive at any conclusion for their own life.

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This is the message given by Sri Aurobindo and the Mother Ascend to the Truth. There's a drama which Mother has written on this subject Ascend to Truth, that there are many levels by which you climb. There are many views that you climb upwards. And then she says there is a summit of the Truth and you can reach that summit. That is the assertion. This is the final message that she gives. There is a Divine Will that wants to manifest itself in physical life. Our aim is to discover that Divine Will and to work for its manifestation in physical life.


I now come to the next book The Good Teacher and the Good Pupil. Here also the method is of exploration.

There have been many great teachers in the world history, many good pupils in the world history. What were their qualities? How to be a good teacher? What does a teacher really have to imbibe in himself? What would be his method?

Next, once again, explorations.

The Rishi and the Brahmachari. Our Indian history starts with this great ideal the teacher should be a Rishi and the pupil should be Brahmachari. All children should know this ideal. Ultimately they accept or not, it's up to them. But you should know what is the ideal that Indian culture has put before us. What is it to be a Rishi? And the book will tell you much more about it. But we rapidly go through it.


A selection has been made from Upanishad's Brahmacharis in the search of Knowledge. The important point in all this is that according to Indian theory, a student is to be defined in terms of his enthusiasm to know. If he has no enthusiasm to know, he can't be called a student at all. He may come to school, he may not come to school that makes no difference. A student could be called a student only when he has searched. That was what was demanded of every child in the ancient time in India. Therefore, the student had to go to the teacher in search.
Not that we are all thrown into the school, whether we like it or not. The value of knowledge was so great in India that you have to qualify. To qualify, you have to be brahmachari. You have to take a kind of a vrata. Brahmacharya was a vrata. You have got to be Brahmachari before you decide to learn.

Now here is a big example of a teacher and the pupil, Arjuna and Krishna. If you read the Gita, Gita can be read in many ways, but not many people have studied the Gita from this point of view, what kind of qualities Arjuna had as a pupil? shadimam prapannam. That is a great quality. And what is the quality of teacher? Why Sri Krishna? What was his great knowledge then he became a teacher and how much a teacher ought to know. This is the way in which you need to learn the Gita also for education. It should be a part of the B.Ed. Course in India to give an example as to what should be a good teacher and a good pupil as an example.

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Now, Buddha, not many people know what Buddha was as a pupil. People know Buddha as a teacher. So I have corrected material in this book. How he used to study himself, how he went from teacher to teacher to learn. We all know that he left his great kingdom on that midnight. But after that he went from teacher to teacher until he arrived at a conclusion that all the teachers that they had to teach, they had all exhausted. And then he turned to himself and he found the real teacher within himself and attained to Nirvana. Now, this whole story is therefore very important for teachers to know.

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Now, here I come again to Socrates and to Plato, where there is a theory of learning that Learning is Recollection. It is to be recognized that both Socrates and Plato believed in theory of rebirth, as Indians believe. And according to Socrates and Plato, all that we need to learn is actually known to the soul, only it has been forgotten. And a good teacher is one who removes the forgetfulness and brings back the knowledge. And not many people know that Plato wrote one great dialogue called Meno. The title of the dialogue is called Meno. The incident that is described in this dialogue is that Socrates goes to a teacher who believes that teaching is to be done from outside. Socrates says that it is not correct. You should only remove the difficulties of the student his knowledge will emerge from himself. So he laughs at him and says, how can it be so? He said, call your slave. Meno is a slave. So he's called.

And then what is called Pythagorean Theorem is proved by the Meno simply by answering questions of Socrates. So the demonstration that Socrates does not teach a theorem, he asks such questions that forgetfulness is removed and he recovers the knowledge and he enunciates the knowledge of the theorem.


This is another doctrine of Plato. This is also worth remembering for everyone, because here you find that Plato and Upanishads come together in a kind of a synthesis. This is a famous part of his great book called Republic.

As you know, Plato wrote one of the greatest dialogues is called Republic. And there this particular story he narrates it's not a story, but he gives a kind of allegory, says, imagine slaves tied up to a pillar from birth who cannot move one way or the other. They can only look in one direction. Behind them is a fire therefore their shadows are cast on the wall which is before them. Therefore they believe the world consists only of shadows. They don't even know themselves, nor anything that is behind them they only know what is before them. So he said, in the world today, we are all like that, like slaves. All human beings are like the slaves tied to the pillars. And all that we are seeing is the shadows in life. But someday one of the slaves is able to liberate himself from the bondage of the pillar. Then he comes out and looks back and says oh! my lord, there's a big fire here. A kind of a knowledge dawns upon him when he looks back. And then he finds that, oh! My lord, these are only shadows, we are quite different. In the light of the fire, he sees himself more properly. Then he looks and looks around and he finds there is a cave which comes out and then he moves out of the cave. When he moves out of the cave, my lord, he sees the source of all light, the sun itself. Similarly, according to Plato, if you really want to know, and this is what he says, every good teacher should have this knowledge that we are only living in shadows, behind is the fire, which is the cause of the shadows. But there is a fire of fires, a greater light outside. And teachers should be able to show to the children the exact greater light. This is the message that Plato wants to give for a good teacher and a good pupil.

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Now, here are some examples given from what is called philosophy of Zen. This is taken from Buddhism. Zen actually means dhyana. And when it went into Japan and other countries of Southeast Asia and East, the Buddhistic way of teaching and learning was refined. And one of the methods is what is called method of New Awareness.

According to Zen, the task of the teacher is not instruction, is not teaching, but awakening. You should be able to awaken the child. So teachers should give to the students some such materials or such questions.

The famous example is can you clap with one hand? One question, can you clap with one hand? So he said clap, clap with one hand. This is hand. So it's not one hand. There is also one hand. Two things are there. So he says, you clap with one hand. It is only when you have sound, in silence that there is a clapping with one hand. Sound is one hand and silence is silence. In that silence, the sound is heard more properly. So you can clap with one hand, provided you arrive at silence. This is how the child can be awakened to a state of consciousness of complete silence, in which you can clap with one hand. I mean, it's a way. One of the examples that is given in Zen is this.

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Sufis also have developed similar methods, but what they call wisdom. See, we always talk of information, knowledge and wisdom. Three levels of journey in the field of knowledge, information. Knowledge and wisdom. What is wisdom? Wisdom is neither information nor even knowledge. So wisdom certainly must have all the information. It must also have knowledge in the sense interconnections of information is knowledge. So you must also be a knower. But wisdom has a greater insight. That is to say, wisdom enters into information and knowledge as if he enters into the cave and from the cave, brings out something which is neither known in information nor in knowledge. That is called wisdom. A wise man he is the one who is able to delve deep and bring out something which is neither captured in information nor in knowledge. A simple example is a famous story of camels.

Is a story of camels. In which a teacher has given to his pupil 17 camels.
When he was about to die, he told his pupils, after my death, you go to another teacher who will teach you. He did not say who was a teacher to whom. Yes, they have to approach. But he left a will that I bought 17 camels. My first pupil will get half of it. My second one will get one third of it, and the last one will get one 6th of it. Now, 17 camels. So they were in search of the answer until they came to the Prophet Ali, son in law of Prophet Muhammad. He was a very wise man. So he says, I put my own camel among 17.And now you work out the mathematics. One will remain. So one is back. So I divided 17. Meaning is that a wise man cannot find a solution unless he's prepared to give himself into the problem. It is by self sacrifice that is the mark of wisdom, a wise man; he doesn't stand outside the problem. He enters into the depth of the problem and then discovers something which is hidden. It's a good example that is given by Sufis.

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It's a great Story of Initiation, where Yusuf it's also a Sufi story told by the Mother to students in the Ashram at Pondicherry. He wanted to learn from his teacher. He wanted to be initiated like a brahmacharin of the ancient times. The teacher is not sure whether is capable of learning or not. So for three, four years does not answer him at all but he remains.

Until at last, one day, the teacher says, I have got a friend of mine. I want to give a message to him so early morning tomorrow, you come. Beyond the river he stays. It should take a long time. So in the morning the teacher gives him a box and pupil takes the box to be given to the other teacher. Whole day he's traveling, gets tired in the middle of the road. Then he eats a little, then goes rest for a little while. While he's resting, his mind is restless. He's asking the question what is in the box. He said I would not have bothered to ask this question if the box was locked. It meant that my teacher wanted that I should keep it closed. Yes, there's no lock here. I can just open it and see, what's wrong about it. He debates within himself, but teacher has not told me to open it. He has just told me to go and give it to him.

I have no right to open it even if it is not locked. He debates and debates and debates for quite some time in his mind until he says just 1 second, I will open. He opens it and a small mouse runs away. Crestfallen Yusuf gives the empty box to the friend. The friend tells Yusuf that he had lost a great opportunity to learn because he had failed the test because he could not master his restless mind.

Here is another from the West — The Would-be Gentleman. It is a story of what not should be done, not what ought to be done but what not be done. It is an example of a gentleman, a very rich man. He wants to be called a gentleman. That is his aim. It is a French drama written by Molère who was one of the greatest humorists of French literature. In French it is called Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme — The Would-be Gentleman — who wants to be gentleman so he appoints seven teachers — an athlete, logician, a poet and many other things, even fencing. So many teachers he keeps so that he becomes a very learned man. It is a flop. If you simply want to be a gentleman and want to study for the purpose to be called a gentleman, you can never learn. Ultimately, learns nothing although in the course he discovers that there is only one thing which he knew very well what is called prose. When the teacher tells him do you know the distinction between prose and poetry? He says no, I neither know prose nor poetry. The teacher says you know what you are speaking is called prose so that is the one revelation he got and he learned what is called prose. It is a very interesting and hilarious story to be told all the children and all the teachers of the world. If you really want to study, you should be really seeking knowledge, true knowledge, merely by keeping seven teachers you cannot learn.


This is a good example of a student who used to abscond from his he said that one should not abscond from the school. But here is an example of a good student who did it. Wordsworth, the great poet. He was so fond of nature. He used to run away from the school just to be in love with nature. And as you know, he became a very great poet of nature. The point is here that our school system obliges the children to abscond. If visiting nature was a part of school system, he would not have absconded. Our school system is wrong. We do not allow the child to move about as Tagore would have been very happy to have this kind of pupil in his Shantiniketan.


This is one of the greatest philosophers of education, Rousseau. He wrote a great book called Emile.

I think all B.Ed. students have taught Emile. Holding the hand of the pupil that is the basic message.

The child is not a wooden piece which you can fabricate as you like. A child has something within himself and the task of the teacher is to bring out something from the child what is within himself. This is another great education.


It's called Pestalozzi. You can see how he used to teach his children. He's a teacher with so many children around, full of love, talking to them, as he used to say I used to get up earlier than my students. Parents go to sleep after every child had gone to sleep and be available to children all the time to think about them, to deliberate upon them, to help them, to be with them. This is the teaching.

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Here is a great teacher, is a great pupil like Arjuna and Sri Krishna. Another example in our history. Vivekananda is a great young fellow and Sri Ramakrishna is a great teacher.

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This is a great story written by Tagore called Parrot's Training. I would like every student of B. Ed. to study this particular story.

Parrots had to be taught how to talk and how to be educated. And the teacher said there must be a good cage so that it first of all does not fly away. The snow has gone. So there should be first of all you should have cage and then you should put so many books inside. Our present theory of stuffing the child with information it should have a lot of stuff. And the king once comes and says have you taught the parents? Teachers say yes, we have got lot of books.

Have we been given? Surely must have now been very wise. Parrot must have been trained. The king goes there and looks parrot is already buried under the books. Like our children also being buried under heavy burden of lot of information he pokes into the parrot's body and found it is dead. So his message is that our education only produces dead children. Our children are not alive because we do not know how to educate children properly. It's a kind of a satire on the present system of education that is given to us and we are spreading all over the country more and more, more books, more stuff to be given to the children. The more burden, so the child's creativity is gone.


Here is a great example of Sullivan and Helen Keller.

Helen Keller was a blind and dumb and deaf woman and became one of the great educationists herself. Why? Because of the teacher called Sullivan. How she devoted her entire life for the pupil and what trouble she took. Helen Keller at the age of eight or nine was like a small animal howling like a wild animal. How by love she tames this girl and explained to her. One of the great examples was to explain the basic thing in education is what is called correlation, correspondence, symbolism. She took the child to a tap of water and said touch and made her touch the water and then wrote on the palm ‒ water message it was not given. She did several times until she understood that teacher is writing something whenever I touch water there's a correspondent word ‒ water, that is being written and water itself. Once she grasped it, she was on the road to education. Now this kind of experience that learning starts with symbolism. All learning is basically correspondence, you relate one with the other when you do, this learning process starts. All learning is nothing but continuous correspondence. The knowledge expands.

Next one.

This is famous Montessori. We all know about Montessori methods of education. You have heard about her, but you must read something about her. Therefore in this chapter I have brought some of the original writings of Montessori so that at least one or two good lessons of hers are known. And she bombarded many theories of education which is current at that time. And she said that child one of the great discoveries of the child is child likes to repeat. This is one of the very important messages she has given. And child likes to repeat, the more she learns, the more she likes to repeat. When a child knows a story which you are going to tell she herself wants to tell the story and even ten times she wants to tell the same story because she knows the story.

We should take advantage of this natural tendency in the child. You enable the child to learn and reinforce it again and again by wanting the child herself to repeat it and give the possibility to the child to repeat. Normally we say now you're done.
Now, next lesson. Don't be in a hurry, let the child repeat and her enthusiasm of learning is fully satisfied. This is a great message that she has given.


 Now once again I bring Nehru because not many people know that Nehru was also a great teacher. And if you read the letters that Nehru wrote to India Gandhi they are excellent examples of being a good teacher, a father being a good teacher through correspondence even the value of correspondence is underlined through these letters. You may not know the value of writing. One good letter is more important than giving ten lectures to a child. A letter written by a teacher or by anybody.

One of the methods of good teaching is teachers writing letters to the children, happy service to the children. I myself made experiments in my own school where I was teaching 40 students philosophy at the same time and every morning I spent 2 hours in writing letters to my students. It is a very successful message what you cannot teach by lectures, you can teach by letter because every child wants to read what you write. It is personal to him and it will be read again and again. It will read again and again. It's a tremendous stipulation.


This is Bertrand Russell again not as a philosopher but as an educationist. Tremendous. He made himself experiments in education. He was a great advocate of freedom in education. No rote learning, but allowing children to ask questions and to give from side of the teacher, great objectivity and impartiality. These are the great qualities he valued very much. Children should not be indoctrinated, but we should give them lessons impartially.

It's a good story by Premchand, My Elder Brother. Bade Bhai. It's a very famous story. It's a very interesting story for education.

Next one.

This is another one The Little Prince by Saint Exupery. He was a great pilot, he used to travel by air. It's a true story. And he went from place to place by plane. And one day his plane got lost and he entered into a kind of a desert. And there he wrote a diary. It's a diary about his discovery. There was a small little prince.

It's an imaginary story. A small prince was found and he has come from another planet, but on this planet and an encounter between that man, that small little one with the pilot, where the problems of civilization of the world are discussed between the two. And this little prince laughs at everything that we call civilized.
So it's a satire on our present civilization and the present way in which we are teaching children. And he gives lessons to this man as to what is the right method of teaching and learning.


This is another book Master Ludi. It is a book written by Herman Hess. It gives an example of a teacher who should constantly learn and become more and more all the time. A good teacher is one who goes on excelling himself and wants integral perfection as his aim. He's a music teacher, and the whole school is so devised that it trains teachers and trains everybody that he should find his true station and should also at the same time expect not to take the highest position, but his true position. In human life everybody cannot become the highest. Everybody cannot be Vice Chancellor. So you should know your own position and you should know where you are. And you should always remain true to your position.

Next one.

This is also another great story. Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach.

Actually, in France and England, a big film has been produced on this particular book, seagull is given a name Jonathan Livingston.

Seagulls have the habits of remaining at the seashore. They are small birds and they constantly look down upon the waters to find a fish. And once the fish is found, it goes down, picks up and he sits, one of the seagulls, he feels, I have got wings and I have never tried to fly higher. So one day he flies and flies and flies and flies and the joy of flying. He's so delighted. And he says, nobody taught me how to fly. What a great life it is to fly. Then he comes back and tells everybody that you are living your life, kup manduk, you are living in a small life, looking only at this, but look at the vast sky. Have you seen, have you seen the possibility of a great delight of existence in flying? This is the message that he wants to give to everybody.

Story is long because afterwards the old people in the seagulls company, they hound him out because this is a rebel and disturbs our life. Therefore he is hounded out but he still says to all the young people. Do not listen to your parents, listen to me. I will take you to the highest heights and greatest joy of life.


This is the last chapter in my book. Paulo Freire also very much Indian students also learn, him The Banking Concept of Education. He is a great critic of our educational system, which wants to tell children that education consists of knowledge. All knowledge is here already in the library and whoever wants it can come here and take it. The bank is here. So he criticizes this philosophy. He says education is not a banking system. It's not as if knowledge is available in your books. And the task of teacher is to give, supply the books and make children learn from the books. And he gives a deeper message of education. Education is experience.

This is the last one To Parents, Teachers and Pupils by the Mother. The greatness of this book is it the smallest book. But I regard to be the greatest book on education. The very first chapter is called Science of Living. It is not art of living. It's not philosophy of living. It is science of living. It's a claim in this book even in our present time Mahapragya ji has started the idea of Jeevan Vijayan, science of living. Science of living can be created only by those who have lived totality of life. Till the time you can only philosophize about life. But when you have seen the full gamut of life and seen all aspects of life then only you can see the science of living. And she has written a book on this subject what is Science of Living?

These are some of these topics I give to teachers to debate.

A good student is judged by his enthusiasm and by the intensity of his quest.

A good student needs no teachers.

This is another statement to be debated.

A good teacher produces good students. A good student is a born good student.

Good students cannot be manufactured.

You have to discuss these questions by the way, if you have a meeting, you should have good subject for discussion.

Next one.

Students should learn in order to earn. This is one of the aims of education.

Value-Oriented education goes off. Students should learn in order to earn.

Students should learn in order to learn.  And to learn how to learn is to learn how to live.

 These are again other questions to be debated by teachers.

Next one.

No student can learn a subject if it is not interesting. But every subject is interesting.

Next one.

Teaching is an adventure. What is to be taught is unknown. Who is to be taught is also unknown.

Only the teaching becomes creative only then teaching becomes an ecstasy.

Next one.

An example must have seen this film. This is the story of ‘To Sir with Love’ this is a very famous film. Many of you might have seen. But I thought it's a good thing to have little entertainment by seeing this film. Here is a teacher and here are pupils who were all wild students. Ultimately he teaches them so well they all have become disciplined. And now is the time when teachers retiring so they want to give a gift to the teacher. I'm showing this to show that this is the greatest reward that every teacher can have if he teaches well.

This is another teacher, a music teacher who had taken lot of trouble on a student who did not know how to play on a musical instrument. He has taught many, many students.

This is the last day of his retirement. And this is the theme, the thing that the student who he taught so well has now become the Governor of the State and she has now come and says this is for you.

I think I've taken lot of your time already.You have still many more things to show. But it doesn't matter today. We can stop here if you like.

If you have some questions we can discuss.

I think we can continue for some more time.

You would like to continue then we can go to the next one.

 If you can highlight a bit methodology and guidelines for the plan application.

Now I have seen what you have sent to me. See my own approach to education is through story. Not too much of theory but story, examples. And that is one element which I found in your curriculum, deficient on that account. We must have in our methodology, the methodology of giving lessons through stories. As you can see in this in my book also process of methodology, examples. So if you are teaching theory to students, educational theory, unless you have many good stories to relate, the lesson doesn't go home to the students.

So my one suggestion is again, so that is one suggestion. The second suggestion that I would like to make is that our B. Ed courses at present are only for a short time. And you can't have this because that is a Macaulay’s system. You are not ready to break it at present. But in any case, I would like physical education to be very polished. I would like every teacher to be healthy teacher in our country. This is a last thing which is not sufficiently emphasized, Sharirik Shiksha, vyayam. We want children to be all round. But if teacher himself is not all round, how can he give that example? It's a very simple question. And minimum of all roundedness is to have good physic, good knowledge of the body, how to keep body healthy, how to give right nutrition to the body and how to lead the body to the excellence. This is the minimum that every teacher should have, another deficiency in your program, which I would like to add.

The third thing that I would very much like is Indian theory of education. Our education is tied up with behaviorism, basically behaviorism. Behaviorism according to me is a false area of education. I make a distinction between education which is manufacturing and education which is creative. Behaviorism is a theory for manufacturing. But if you want education to be creative, our Indian theories of education are very important. But on this subject we have very little literature. Trouble is that if you ask somebody give us the literature on Indian theory of education, we are very poor. Unfortunately, even Indian educationists have hardly written any book on the subject. We should make a research there are great theories of education of recent times. At least these five theories you should teach. One is the theory of Dayanand Saraswati. He gave the entire system of education, his own philosophy of education in the third chapter of Satyarth Prakash. It's a great book Satyarth Prakash and that book has taken the trouble to devote one full chapter on education.

I would like that book to be studied by every student of B.Ed. The second is the education philosophy that Gandhi has given. And there is one very good book written by Kishore Mashruwala, Kelavanina Paya, The Foundations of Education. This is the book I read several times when I was a student in college. It's a very powerful book. Kelavanina Paya, The Foundations of Education. I'm sure it must have been translated into Hindi too, I'm quite sure. Just inquire about it. It's a very great book.

The third one is Tagore’s Philosophy of Education. And there you don't have any dearth of literature. Tagore himself has written a lot on education. And I would like very much Tagore’s Theory of Philosophy of Education to be talked to our teachers. His book called My School is a great book by itself. His book Sadhana is another book and many other books, even Lipika small book which has so many short stories are extremely good stories for education of teachers.

The fourth book that I would recommend is Vivekananda’s Man Making Education on which Swami Ragnathan has written.

And the fifth book that I recommend is what I showed here, On Education by the Mother. And Sri Aurobindo’s book called A National System of Education, which he wrote in 1909, nearly 100 years ago. But it gives Indian Theory of Education in its proper perspective. A National System of Education that is one another he wrote National Value of Art. Another book that he wrote which also should be read. Third one he wrote is Brain of India, a very short book but extremely powerful. Brain of India.

And then the first chapter of his book Synthesis of Yoga. Sri Aurobindo’s book Synthesis of Yoga. The first chapter, The Four Aids that is the title is The Four Aids.

This entire system of philosophy of education. I would very much like that your B.Ed course should include these five great philosophers of India to be represented. Our children should know what our great Indians have taught. Otherwise our children think that only Westerners are thinking about education, India has nothing to offer.

 If you want to read another book which is extremely important for Indian education is Taittiriya Upanishad is the Indian Classical book on education.There is one full chapter called Shikshawalli in Upanishad. The very first chapter is called Shikshawalli. It's a manual of education. I would very much like that our students know at least Taittiriya Upanishad as a standard work on education of ancient India. The method of teaching is given. Even the syllabus is given. Even the convocation address even now we are using is from this Upanishad. All universities today have convocation addresses at the end dharmam chara satyam vada that advice which is being given is the last part of Shikshawalli of the Taittiriya Upanishad. So this is what I would like to recommend.

So let me now come to this if you want to see this. This is the book which I would like. What is The Mystery and Excellence of the Human Body? First of all our teachers should know what a wonderful instrument the human body is and how mysterious it is. Even today what we know about the human body is perhaps only 100th of what should be known. We do not know much about human body and I am showing here first of all a small article from Alexis Carrel.

This is called the title of the book Man the Unknown by Alexis Carrel. The very title shows that man is unknown and we must explore this unknown man and he has shown how our body functions.


Then these questions should are also discussed in this book. What is health? Ayurvedic Concept of Health a New View of Health from Space, Time and Medicine by Larry Dossey. David Baum, this is also written on Implicate and Explicate order and characteristics of a healthy body as understood in India by one of Deshpande has written a very nice article on this subject. And the healthy body should be fit and should be able to sleep. These are the important characteristics that have been laid down and shown in this book.


 I'm running very fast because we don't have much time but you will see just the titles.


It's a story of a man who revived himself only by eating only grapes and nothing else. So how one can have right nutrition and one can cure one's own body.


Then there is a part III called ‘Healing’. Every teacher should know that body can be healed and what are the items which you should know. Insights from Indian wisdom then will to live and healing. Healing by visualization and concentration. A severe case of hypochondria. Some people have the habit of saying I am always ill. It produces illness rather than health. So one should come out of that disease.

Here is a short story from Tolstoy, Natasha's Illness. How the body itself even if medicines don't work, the very body itself is healing process. If you allow the body to be happy and put the body in a good environment, body will be healed.

Next, it's the fourth part of the book Physical Education Excellence of the Human Body. Physical Education in Ancient India. We have brought here some of the extracts from stories of ancient India.

Then Ancient Olympics and then Modern Olympic Games. And then we have a list of Olympics in recent times,Asian Games.

We also have interview with Narotam Puri. He's one of the television personalities and a great commentator on physical education. Then we also written something on P. T. Usha, then Zetopec also, and then Bodybuilding an Introduction. This, if you like I would like to show you from Arnold, who is now one of the governors of USA, one of the state. He was a great bodybuilder. Kindly take a look at him. This is what he says: ‘I want to be the best built man in the world’, when he was a young boy, this is what he decided. At 14, he started an intensive training program. At 15, he studied psychology to learn more about the power of mind over body. At 17, he officially started his competitive career.

Next. Arnold knew that you had to have more than just a massive frame and totally tweaked muscles to win. You also had to have the strongest will. At just 20 years old, he was the youngest Mr. Universe in the history. Arnold had accomplished part of his dream. Next. If he really wanted to accomplish his dream of being the best built man, he would have to win them all. Mr. Universe, Mr. World, Mr. Olympia. And he won all, determination, willpower, discipline, self control.


He won an unprecedented seven Mr. Olympia titles before he retired. This is the advice he has given which is worth studying. Fitness must start at an early age; get daily physical education back into schools. These classes not only get young people fit and reduce their cholesterol, their stress and their health risk, at the same time also increase the stamina, their energy and their coordination. In addition, they also learn valuable tools for life, discipline, camaraderie, competition and they gain self esteem and do better academically. But most importantly, young people learn how to stay healthy. And because they feel good about themselves, they are less likely to be to get involved with drugs or alcohol.

Fitness. Not only for those who try out for the school team. I'm talking about fitness for those who don't make the teams, those who aren't the star basketball players. It doesn't take a lot of money and fancy equipment. What it takes is will and opportunity. I have never paid for a push up or a sit up in my life and I have done millions.

First, we should put apples and oranges in our vending machines and take out the junk food. Second, insist we test student’s fitness levels. We test in math, English, science. Why not test in the area of physical fitness too? It is just as important to grow up fit as it is to grow up smart.

Many parents say they work long hours and don't have the time to work out with their kids that love it. If we can watch 2 hours of television at night, we can find the time to spend 30 minutes with our kids to promote fitness and health. And it is fun. A walk after dinner, a half hour of playing catch, a bike ride together, playing cricket or football. There are a hundred different ways.

The bottom line is strive for your aim in life. Make sure your instruments are in mint condition. A sound mind in a sound body.

In this book, I have found aspects of physical education. It's a great message of Sri Aurobindo on physical education, which I would like every teacher and students to read.

The Mother has written on physical education. And there's a book by the Mother called The Four Austerities and four Liberation.

Part VI deals with courage and handicapped Triumphant Courage.

There is a text from Roosevelt. You know Roosevelt. There's a story which I have given here. Can you show that story? It's a short story of Roosevelt at 30, the 32nd President of USA, born on January30, 1882, died April 12, 1945.

His childhood in August 21 FDR as he was called contracted polio. That would leave him paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of his life. He categorically refused to accept the notion that he was paralyzed. He was determined to walk again. For the next seven years he threw himself into a daily routine of exercise and therapy. He suffered pain. He suffered a bleak future, but did not suffer from any crippling weakness of the heart, fickleness of the mind or nervousness of the body. He stood unshakable and unshaken. This search for a cure would continue for the rest of his life.

It reflected in every sense FDR's ever present optimism and his refusal to accept the notion that he was prematurely disabled. With that handicap, he won the presidency of the USA four times, successfully, brought the nation safely to the terrible trials of the Great Depression, and witnessed the defeat of fascist Germany under Hitler and worst enemy of humanity of the 20th century. Disabled he won the President. Challenges he faced are many. On inauguration day confronted a country on the verge of economic collapse, unemployment, bank closure, farm holdings. FDR met this crisis much like he had met his own personal catastrophe upon him with optimism, energies and motivation. ‘The only thing we have to fear is fear itself’.


He moved to create a grand alliance against the Axis powers through the Declaration of the United Nations January 1, 1942. With all nations fighting the Axis, they agreed not to make a separate peace and pledge themselves to a peacemaking organization now the United Nations, on victory. Many years after his death, Eleanor Roosevelt once remarked that his illness was a blessing in disguise. It gained strength and meant that he understood human suffering and knew that it could be overcome. He also knew that one must have spiritual and physical courage. And if one had that, there was no situation.

Next part deals with Adventures and Achievements.

There are many stories here told of Tenzing, Reinold Messner and Steven Callahan. Next we go faster.

This is another body reaching out beyond itself, exceeding the body. Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Marathon Monks, Kalaripayit and Aikido and extraordinary feats of the body. These are very exemplary examples to be learned.


 In the integral yoga the body is looked upon as an instrument of the spirit. Here the human body is required to achieve not only high degrees of excellence, but also self perfections, which can be expected when the spirit manifests fully in the physical body. Last is the Perfection of the Body a great article written by Sri Aurobindo, which I think every teacher of physical education should learn and every teacher in fact should learn.

Perfection of the body, future of the human body by process of mutation. What is mutation? This is the Sri Aurobindo's idea that human body is a transitional body. A new divine body is to be brought about. This is monkey's body is different from human body. Similarly divine body will be different body.


 We can show this example what is mutation? Caterpillar becomes a butterfly by process of mutation. It's a small story. Children going to see what a caterpillar is and how it becomes ultimately a butterfly. It goes now in hibernation for months. Sri Aurobindo's was spoken of the divine body. How the new body will come about? There are three steps for the mutation of the human body.


The first step is to make the body strong, supple and healthy. Second step is to develop perfection of the human body. This perfection would includes the capacity of the body to reply to every need of the soul without fatigue and without insensitivity. This emphasis on soul is very important. The need of the soul to develop. The third step would mean transformation of the human body into the divine body. A divine body would have new features of structure. It will need no food and therefore there will be no area of the digestive system. It will surpass the need to have any structure for the sexual process of reproduction, since it will be able to produce another divine body by spiritual value. And third, it will have gross perfections of brain and the heart. So the supreme will and supreme knowledge can be transmitted through it without wear and tear. It will conquer death and if it ceases to function, it will be only by pre self-determination and not by any other means. This is the idea that Sri Aurobindo's has given, which according to him will come about in the present process of evolution. That's why the importance of the body also in education. The immortal soul and immortal body that is a fulfillment of divine life on the earth.

I think we stop here now, because there is series of ten books.

Yes, you can always show the titles. We have still as I said, 75 more books that will come out.

I tell you, they have a great power. Academic councils of every university can be influenced by the Vice Chancellors, if they want to get a message. All universities are autonomous. All universities, even one university can do it and can show boldness that in my university teacher education will be of this kind. Without boldness, without bravery, without courage, without heroism in this world, no action can be done. Someone has to break the ice.

Therefore, in spite of those limitations, what he says can be done. Second, is it's not all? My first answer since he's here, I'm telling. second is that Education Ministers of the country should be addressed by its Vice Chancellors. Many Education Ministers they are ignorant of education. Most of them, many I would say. They do not know even the wheels of education machinery in our country. What is NCRT? What is NCTE? Even the major bodies of education they are ignorant about. Therefore, they are not capable of doing anything excepting running the schools and transfers favoritism nepotism. That's their power. And they feel very proud that they can do it. And they're engaged. I have a very humorous example.

The Governor of UP at one time was a great friend of mine. And he called his Education Minister and he told her to meet me, discuss with me what can be done in education in UP. I was very hopeful. We had very good discussion with her. She was very respectful. She came to meet me. So I said, well, you have a great chance today. UP is a very large state. If you do in UP something, the whole country will follow ultimately. Her only question was only one. Her only question was I don't have school buildings. That's the only problem that was nagging her. As if educational situation, teachers, what is the fundamentals of education? Nothing, Bhavan kaha hai. I had to give an answer as to how to get buildings. Even how to get money for buildings for the schools from the Finance Ministry even that is an art. Even that many Education Ministers don't know. They are told here is a budget already given. When you become Education Minister, you are told by your secretaries madam, sir, this is the budget. And within that budget you have to do everything, as if it is a scripture given to you God's word you cannot break it. They are not even told that you can break this budget, if you want it and how you can break the budget. No Finance Minister will agree to break your budget unless you have good scheme. You should prepare a good scheme. Go to the Finance Minister and no good Finance Minister will refuse you. Budgets are breakable, and many ministers don't know that budgets can be broken. If you want money for buildings, you can go to Finance Ministry if you have good scheme. If you can give all the right figures that here are the children so many uneducated, we have program, we have promised to the world, we shall have universalization of elementary education, we need so many buildings but your mathematics should be correct, should be convincing; at least that much work you should do. In other words, even with preliminary things, our Education Ministers are not equipped.

Vice chancellors can be good teachers of all the ministers, instead of Ministers calling the Conference of Vice Chancellor they could do other things. You have got AIU. I worked for AIU for a long, many years. I gave lot of money to them. AIU today has become a powerful body. AIU has the power to call the Minister's Conference. You take the other way around and give them the program as to what can be done in education. Now I come to the final answer.

You cannot do anything to change the system of education unless you establish a permanent body of innovations for education. A permanent body only for that work not UGC, not NCT. You should have permanent body at the national level, statutory established, and you should appoint advisors in that commission for a period of five or ten years because new innovations cannot be implemented except on a long term. This is to be understood. You can't change the system of Macaulay which has been rooted in India within one year or two years. You should have program of 20 years. But it can be done.

Your question is how can it be done? I'm telling you how it can be done. You establish a National Commission for Educational Innovations. What are innovations needed, you call the best educations of the country, particularly those who have read the Dayanand Saraswati, Vivekananda, Gandhi, Tagore, Sri Aurobindo. You invite, you give a challenge to the country's educationists. Dr. Deval is here he will get a challenge.

Have you read these five great educationists of India. Do you know what they have told? What innovation should be brought? You should make a good list of all innovations they have proposed, they all have made experiments their talks are not ordinary talks we have declared they cannot be implemented, who says so? Who says that horticulture can't be taught to your children? Who says so? You have not provided any horticultural grounds to your schools and you say it can't be done, who has stopped the money? You have stopped the money, you said we only Macaulay schools can be run without any money, so you want those schools? We have accepted it, it's all poverty why? Education Minister should be brave enough to say we will not educate children with this much money. It is a false proposition when education Ministers say we don't have money, it's not true I have worked for Education Ministry for twelve years. And I tell you very forcefully, it is a false idea we don't have money for education, only, we don't have schemes. We have no programs. Make powerful programs. Go to Finance Ministry. No Finance Minister will refuse you. I had a great opportunity to work with Indira Gandhi as long as she did from 1976 to 1984. I was her personal advisor on education, also in the ministry also. And she was a bold Prime Minister and if she had to remain, your question would have been answered.

I had told her what to do and she wanted to do it. That's why she established Teachers’ Commission. You must have seen 1983; I was Member Secretary for three years of that Commission. We went round the whole country to get her ground on this point, we want teachers to demand, then the government can do it. That was the need at that time and she wanted to do it. And I told her that you should not allow any teacher education program except for five years, whether it is for kindergarten or primary or secondary or higher, even higher education. Today professors can become teachers immediately without any training staff college two, three months you go and you become professor. Everybody requires to be trained as a teacher in our country. Everybody. So I said five year program for everybody. Anybody who wants to be a teacher should decide at the class twelve, I want to be a teacher.

Secondly, the country should announce that every teacher is a soldier, a commission officer and just as in army you are commissioned and you are paid by the government. Every teacher under training should be paid during this period of training. It will upgrade the whole status of teachers in the country.

It is one profession for which the country will pay for your training and for five years. And give during this five years all round education to every teacher. And then give them a new system, innovative education system for which you establish this commission. Give them the full chance of recognizing any new innovative program. Today you have to go to NCT, as you rightly said. Why should you go to NCT? This innovative program maker should certify that you are doing a good work. Not NCT. They want only Macaulay education. If you don't follow their norms, you are not recognized. But if you have a commission for national innovations, you can do it. You can even create a new system of education. Alternative five systems you can run, all the five systems which I just now discussed are all workable. All of them are good. And our country is good enough, vast enough to absorb five different systems of education. Why should only one system? Who says so? We should have five systems of education, but controlled, advised, by this commission. This is a brief answer to your question. It can be done not to be disappointed, it can be done. I want good Vice Chancellors, good Education Ministers in country and good dialogue between the two, and people like you who will put questions to them.

Comment: And people like you who have all the answers.

I'm only saying innovations are to be thought of. Yes, that's why I said 20 years. You should give; at least, it can be done. But we should have this vision that we should do it. Vision and the will to, will to do it. Absolutely.

Comment: That is more important vision if the vision is not implemented, then vision remains a vision. Vision is not implemented.

Conversations in Hindi.

A donkey finds out how to eat, how to reproduce, you don't need to train a donkey how to eat and how to find out the food for itself. Education is really meant only for that which you cannot normally do yourself.

What we are doing is that we want to teach children what they can learn by themselves already in any case, we are wasting our time. What they can do themselves, we are just driving home.

We must be in search of those children who do not want this answer, who are themselves looking for a different answer. For the rest, let them do what they like. Because you cannot in this world, you cannot uplift one who does not want to be uplifted. As I said in India, there is a system a student is one who wants to study. It is our Macaulay system which said you throw a child into school in a prison and make him learn. That's very psychology itself is wrong. I'm not opposed to universalization of elementary education. But we have to create a condition in which every child in our country knows that to be a student is one who wants to learn. And this is not a task which you can do in your classroom. In your classroom, you can do your best by telling children what you are saying. You can't succeed very well because the whole world today is in a competitive mood. But as an individual, if you say, I am convinced that life of a teacher is to be devoted for creating new type of children then you will do it. Even you tell the children that is enough. Those who are already vibrating, they will pick up the message and you will be specialists in that afterwards. At least as far as you are concerned. In my own life, I have done the same thing. Today I've got all of you because of that reason. I could have wasted my time on going around the whole world giving lectures. I don't do it.

Why? I want to give time to those teachers who are looking for what you are asking. If I went around the whole country and the world, my time would have been wasted giving them what they want. But I am available only to those. I make myself available very easily. You just ask me I'm available. Why? Because I only see that here is an aspiration and I'm available. I'm their servant. I'm coolie in their work. So similarly, as a teacher, you should do the same thing. Because of your occupation, you have to be with the children whether they want this or that. But if you make a rule for yourself that you are especially available to those children who are different, you are especially available. You will fulfill yourself.

That is for you personally. I'm answering.