Sachchidananda 'The Life Divine' Book I,Ch.9, 10, 11, 12 - Track 903

Fine, therefore now this is his one line of proposition, one of the remotest line of his argument. But how do you know that energy is the ultimate assumption that there is nothing beyond energy. Is there any way by which you can show that that is the only ultimate assumption on the basis of which all that is here can be explained? So, his answer is so far this is all that I have done. My homework is up to here whether there is something beyond it or not, at least I have not been required to enquire further because this farthest I have gone, but now he is really tired already you have gone far enough and if you still persist a question do you have still – how do you say that energy is the last point of the assumption on the basis of which you can explained this matter, so he says if I go farther I will come back to you till that time let me be now left with what I have. This is where the materialist ultimately stops in his argument, when you have a dialogue with him he stops at this point. This is one kind of a trajectory, our journey with the materialist, then he comes back again with you and you can start another trajectory with him or a dialogue. He had said that when you open your eyes you see matter. Now even on that ground my argument is, do you see that matter alone exists? There is no doubt about the fact that matter exist and I would not dispute with that fact – matter exists, but you do not see anywhere that matter alone exists. To make a statement that matter alone exists you should claim that you have seen everything in the world. All that can be seen before you can make a statement that matter alone exists, it is not sufficient to say that whatever you see is matter …quite true, so far whatever you see is matter, how do you come to the conclusion that matter alone exists. Now again he is tired because then you might say that well he says that I have seen is this, so until I have seen everything don’t come to me and discuss this question so this the second line of trajectory where the dialogues stops. Now there is a third line of trajectory with him. Come back again. You said in the beginning that physical organs give you the evidence of matter, therefore you conclude that physical organs are the means of evidence and knowledge is this all that you want to say? So when you press him he will make another statement that is that physical organs are the only means of knowledge just as in the other case he had added the word alone matter alone exist. Now he makes a further statement that physical organs are the  only means of knowledge, so again you have to ask him the question that how do you know that physical organs are the only means of knowledge. Have you examined all kinds of evidences, all kinds of means of knowledge then having done all that have you come to the conclusion that these are the only means of knowledge? His answer is so far my knowledge is derived from physical senses, that is fine.

Now you happen to be one of those anxious teachers who want to convert people. So they want to convert the materialists, so they say all right we want to have dialogue with you, you may not like to have dialogue with me but I want to have dialogue so that I want to talk to you, uplift you to take you out of this materialistic groove, which is wrong…all right if you want dialogue with me you are allowed to talk to me, but remember I do not want to talk to you that is the starting point. This is how your position is…in the beginning. There is no other way of making you week, so this is one of the methods of making you weak right from the beginning saying I don’t want to have dialogue with you. If you want to have dialogue with me fine….come along, so now you start a dialogue with him and you say you know there is soul, there is spirit, there is transcendental, there is invisible, there are miracles, unexpected things happen in the world. So, he shows no sign of response because he is not in dialogue with you, you want to bring about a point where he can start a dialogue. Now you make all your great statements. All are finished now your statements – there is soul, there is spirit, there is transcendent, there is miracle, there are unexpected things that happens, incredible things that happen, but he shows no sign at all of having being moved at all then when you repeat the statement, he doesn’t show any sign at all of any response at all then ….and say do you understand what I tell you. He said no, I don’t understand. This is his greatest weapon. He says I don’t understand at all soul, spirit,trancendental, incredible things I don’t understand anyone of these things at all. What you say at the most we might say is to me Greek and Latin , but even Greek and Latin when you learn Greek and Latin makes meaning, so he says even it is not Greek and Latin. It is purely abra ka dabra. In no language it can have any meaning. It is purely what you are saying is simply noise that I admit. You are making a noise I can see that. The world soul, spirit all these words are making noise, but makes no sense to me at all, therefore he says therefore he says all that you are saying is non-sense in real the real-sense of the term non-sense not merely in a perjorative sense. Not that you are thrown out he simply says that what you are saying is non-sense. He stands aloof like Himalayas, immovable, you can’t change him now. There was some chance of a dialogue but now dialogue is also not possible. Now you are wondering as to how to move this. You are a good teacher you want to teach him. You want to give a message to him, but he simply says that when you give a message, he says that it makes no sense to me at all. He does not even understand, therefore doesn’t dispute with you. He doesn’t say soul does not exist. He doesn’t say spirit does not exist. He simply says, I don’t even understand therefore even I don’t know chance of disputing with you, you will argue with him if he understands and say it doesn’t exist because then you can ask for a proof of non- existence then the task becomes difficult but now it is such an easy thing.